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	<title>Comments on: Crudeness, Complexity, and Venom&#8217;s Bite</title>
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	<description>Bob Rehak&#039;s Blog about Special Effects, Videogames, Film, and Television</description>
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		<title>By: Bob Rehak</title>
		<link>http://graphic-engine.swarthmore.edu/?p=176&#038;cpage=1#comment-2103</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Rehak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:06:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Michael: good points, as always. In my zeal to explore my reaction to the show (read: navel-gaze), I probably came across as more dismissive than I meant to be. Let me refine my point: it&#039;s not that I think &lt;em&gt;Spectacular Spider-Man&lt;/em&gt; is trash, or that I&#039;ll never watch it again; if anything, writing the post -- and reading your reply -- have made me curious to see more. And I agree that, as a basic principle of media study, I should never judge a show based on one instance; an almost sinful mistake when it comes to serial artwork.

What I was trying to do was quickly record my first reactions to the new Spider-Man series, and get at some of the reasons I flinched away from it. As I tried to convey, I&#039;m highly equivocal toward my own critique; one can entertain a response while holding it at arm&#039;s length. In this case, I felt akin to a grownup in the 1950s reacting to that noisy rock and roll, or those lurid comic books. Positions we now understand as laughably reactionary, yet not without their poignant validity, if only in that they mark the typical and eternally recurring &lt;strong&gt;cultural orienting response&lt;/strong&gt; to an emergent mode of art, measured against the established and/or receding modes that have over time become transparently naturalized. The &quot;new&quot; is always surrounded by a kind of raw psychological scar tissue, a fraught borderland whose affective texture is highly passionate (and I mean the term in its twin senses of ecstacy and suffering).

Venom is interesting to me because I now see that it marks my own point of departure from the Spider-Man mythology -- the juncture at which I ceased to wholly grasp what exactly Spider-Man was &quot;about.&quot; Entirely my choice, in retrospect; I could have bought the titles, could have studied up. But I didn&#039;t, so everything after that became somehow alien, an inversion of the familiar hero-world I had known. Since Venom itself is a kind of unwelcome intruder, an inside-out Spider-Man, it&#039;s a useful metaphor for thinking through my shifting and not always consistent responses to transmedia evolution.

I see now, for example, that I enjoyed Raimi&#039;s first two movies because they recapitulated the years of Spider-Man that I most enjoyed as a kid. I soured on the series once it reached the moment of my personal rupture, that fork in the road signposted by Eddie Brock, a character whom I&#039;m afraid I shall always see as wrongly retrofitted into an established order. As with the &lt;em&gt;Star Wars&lt;/em&gt; prequels, folks who come into the storyline after me will likely have no problem with Brock/Venom. I can no more avoid this contradiction than I can stop lines appearing on my face, or my beard turning gray.

Re: Bruce Timm&#039;s other work, points taken. I&#039;ve got &lt;em&gt;Batman: The Animated Series&lt;/em&gt; saved up and am waiting for a chance to watch it (my current catch-up job, &lt;em&gt;The Wire&lt;/em&gt;, is grabbing all my spare viewing time). The few episodes of &lt;em&gt;Justice League&lt;/em&gt; I&#039;ve seen struck me as rather dull and heavy-handed, but then I never really responded to the JL as a comic-book reader (the hotbodied &lt;strong&gt;Legion of Superheroes&lt;/strong&gt; was more my thing). On the other hand, I love the &lt;em&gt;Teen Titans&lt;/em&gt; cartoon, after an initial couple of encounters in which that series&#039; visual surface -- like &lt;em&gt;Spectacular Spider-Man&lt;/em&gt;&#039;s -- left me a little dazed. So maybe old dogs can learn new tricks!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael: good points, as always. In my zeal to explore my reaction to the show (read: navel-gaze), I probably came across as more dismissive than I meant to be. Let me refine my point: it&#8217;s not that I think <em>Spectacular Spider-Man</em> is trash, or that I&#8217;ll never watch it again; if anything, writing the post &#8212; and reading your reply &#8212; have made me curious to see more. And I agree that, as a basic principle of media study, I should never judge a show based on one instance; an almost sinful mistake when it comes to serial artwork.</p>
<p>What I was trying to do was quickly record my first reactions to the new Spider-Man series, and get at some of the reasons I flinched away from it. As I tried to convey, I&#8217;m highly equivocal toward my own critique; one can entertain a response while holding it at arm&#8217;s length. In this case, I felt akin to a grownup in the 1950s reacting to that noisy rock and roll, or those lurid comic books. Positions we now understand as laughably reactionary, yet not without their poignant validity, if only in that they mark the typical and eternally recurring <strong>cultural orienting response</strong> to an emergent mode of art, measured against the established and/or receding modes that have over time become transparently naturalized. The &#8220;new&#8221; is always surrounded by a kind of raw psychological scar tissue, a fraught borderland whose affective texture is highly passionate (and I mean the term in its twin senses of ecstacy and suffering).</p>
<p>Venom is interesting to me because I now see that it marks my own point of departure from the Spider-Man mythology &#8212; the juncture at which I ceased to wholly grasp what exactly Spider-Man was &#8220;about.&#8221; Entirely my choice, in retrospect; I could have bought the titles, could have studied up. But I didn&#8217;t, so everything after that became somehow alien, an inversion of the familiar hero-world I had known. Since Venom itself is a kind of unwelcome intruder, an inside-out Spider-Man, it&#8217;s a useful metaphor for thinking through my shifting and not always consistent responses to transmedia evolution.</p>
<p>I see now, for example, that I enjoyed Raimi&#8217;s first two movies because they recapitulated the years of Spider-Man that I most enjoyed as a kid. I soured on the series once it reached the moment of my personal rupture, that fork in the road signposted by Eddie Brock, a character whom I&#8217;m afraid I shall always see as wrongly retrofitted into an established order. As with the <em>Star Wars</em> prequels, folks who come into the storyline after me will likely have no problem with Brock/Venom. I can no more avoid this contradiction than I can stop lines appearing on my face, or my beard turning gray.</p>
<p>Re: Bruce Timm&#8217;s other work, points taken. I&#8217;ve got <em>Batman: The Animated Series</em> saved up and am waiting for a chance to watch it (my current catch-up job, <em>The Wire</em>, is grabbing all my spare viewing time). The few episodes of <em>Justice League</em> I&#8217;ve seen struck me as rather dull and heavy-handed, but then I never really responded to the JL as a comic-book reader (the hotbodied <strong>Legion of Superheroes</strong> was more my thing). On the other hand, I love the <em>Teen Titans</em> cartoon, after an initial couple of encounters in which that series&#8217; visual surface &#8212; like <em>Spectacular Spider-Man</em>&#8216;s &#8212; left me a little dazed. So maybe old dogs can learn new tricks!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael D.</title>
		<link>http://graphic-engine.swarthmore.edu/?p=176&#038;cpage=1#comment-2078</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 05:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://graphic-engine.swarthmore.edu/?p=176#comment-2078</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One more thought to try to convince you: Actually, this show equally reflects Ditko&#039;s style and characterizations as much as it does more recent approaches to the character -- which is even more why I&#039;d think you&#039;d perhaps appreciate it better if you saw it from the beginning, considering Venom is basically the polar opposite of all of the &quot;classic&quot; Spider-Man stuff.  I can see why you might have been turned off, this being the only episode you&#039;ve seen so far.  

For example: Every single episode ends with the last shot graphically shifting/animating into a Ditko-esque circular Spidey-logo.  Very nice touch.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more thought to try to convince you: Actually, this show equally reflects Ditko&#8217;s style and characterizations as much as it does more recent approaches to the character &#8212; which is even more why I&#8217;d think you&#8217;d perhaps appreciate it better if you saw it from the beginning, considering Venom is basically the polar opposite of all of the &#8220;classic&#8221; Spider-Man stuff.  I can see why you might have been turned off, this being the only episode you&#8217;ve seen so far.  </p>
<p>For example: Every single episode ends with the last shot graphically shifting/animating into a Ditko-esque circular Spidey-logo.  Very nice touch.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael D.</title>
		<link>http://graphic-engine.swarthmore.edu/?p=176&#038;cpage=1#comment-2077</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 04:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://graphic-engine.swarthmore.edu/?p=176#comment-2077</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, Bob, how can I say this...  What you saw was actually the very last episode of the season.  Perhaps if you&#039;d start from the beginning, you&#039;d build up more of an appreciation for it...?  Then again, maybe it&#039;s just not &quot;clicking&quot; with you.

I, too, was initially taken aback by the curious visual texture of the show when I first viewed it, but gradually I really came to appreciate how they really are able to a lot with very little, in essence.  The action sequences on this show are extremely dynamic and expansive, designed beautifully to showcase how Spider-Man truly moves up, around, over, and about the city and how he encounters and battles villains inside, through and on top of buildings and various other structures.  That&#039;s not even counting what I think is a wonderful narrative fabric and spot-on characterization that underlines the whole show.  It starts off innocently, but gradually develops and expands throughout the show&#039;s season, to really create an ongoing universe where every character&#039;s actions do have consequences, and do affect things in significant ways as the series moves forward.  

I can kind of understand where you&#039;re coming from re: admitting you&#039;re not interested/out of touch with current Spider-Man comic book mythology (as am I) and perhaps you&#039;re frustrated with the current approaches to this series, or indeed contemporary popular (western?) animation.  

I can&#039;t really agree with you, however, that in this Spider-Man, &quot;the dialogue, characterization, and storytelling seem thin, undercooked, dashed off,&quot; or your other criticisms of what could perhaps be called the &quot;visual rhetoric&quot; of the show. 

I&#039;m as sick of Venom as you are (and agree with you on Spider-Man 3, left me cold too, and almost offended!), but what you saw was indeed the first time he appeared in the series, and it was at the very end of the season.  The whole &quot;black costume&quot;/Eddie Brock saga is actually adapted/built up quite nicely in many episodes preceding that encounter (from the very first episode!).  

I think perhaps if you would check out the show from the beginning, you might be able to catch some of the subtler nuances of characterization that are thrown in there and the way they&#039;re developed in interesting ways throughout (they don&#039;t even introduce Mary Jane until at least halfway through the season, I think -- and it&#039;s classically done).  

I am actually much more impressed with this show than I ever expected to be, I think it&#039;s absolutely the best representation yet of Spider-Man in any media outside of his comics.

And the visual style&#039;s grown on me, what can I say?

Oh, and in a whole other league, I find it interesting that you&#039;ve seen Timm&#039;s Superman Animated Series, but not much of his other stuff!  You really need to check out Batman: The Animated Series (where it all began) and Justice League -- I would say they&#039;re a must for any animation scholar...!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Bob, how can I say this&#8230;  What you saw was actually the very last episode of the season.  Perhaps if you&#8217;d start from the beginning, you&#8217;d build up more of an appreciation for it&#8230;?  Then again, maybe it&#8217;s just not &#8220;clicking&#8221; with you.</p>
<p>I, too, was initially taken aback by the curious visual texture of the show when I first viewed it, but gradually I really came to appreciate how they really are able to a lot with very little, in essence.  The action sequences on this show are extremely dynamic and expansive, designed beautifully to showcase how Spider-Man truly moves up, around, over, and about the city and how he encounters and battles villains inside, through and on top of buildings and various other structures.  That&#8217;s not even counting what I think is a wonderful narrative fabric and spot-on characterization that underlines the whole show.  It starts off innocently, but gradually develops and expands throughout the show&#8217;s season, to really create an ongoing universe where every character&#8217;s actions do have consequences, and do affect things in significant ways as the series moves forward.  </p>
<p>I can kind of understand where you&#8217;re coming from re: admitting you&#8217;re not interested/out of touch with current Spider-Man comic book mythology (as am I) and perhaps you&#8217;re frustrated with the current approaches to this series, or indeed contemporary popular (western?) animation.  </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t really agree with you, however, that in this Spider-Man, &#8220;the dialogue, characterization, and storytelling seem thin, undercooked, dashed off,&#8221; or your other criticisms of what could perhaps be called the &#8220;visual rhetoric&#8221; of the show. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m as sick of Venom as you are (and agree with you on Spider-Man 3, left me cold too, and almost offended!), but what you saw was indeed the first time he appeared in the series, and it was at the very end of the season.  The whole &#8220;black costume&#8221;/Eddie Brock saga is actually adapted/built up quite nicely in many episodes preceding that encounter (from the very first episode!).  </p>
<p>I think perhaps if you would check out the show from the beginning, you might be able to catch some of the subtler nuances of characterization that are thrown in there and the way they&#8217;re developed in interesting ways throughout (they don&#8217;t even introduce Mary Jane until at least halfway through the season, I think &#8212; and it&#8217;s classically done).  </p>
<p>I am actually much more impressed with this show than I ever expected to be, I think it&#8217;s absolutely the best representation yet of Spider-Man in any media outside of his comics.</p>
<p>And the visual style&#8217;s grown on me, what can I say?</p>
<p>Oh, and in a whole other league, I find it interesting that you&#8217;ve seen Timm&#8217;s Superman Animated Series, but not much of his other stuff!  You really need to check out Batman: The Animated Series (where it all began) and Justice League &#8212; I would say they&#8217;re a must for any animation scholar&#8230;!</p>
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